Dubas Goes In-Depth on Decisions Surrounding the Penguins

After the Penguins finished making moves at the NHL Trade Deadline on Friday, Kyle Dubas met with the media before heading to the airport to fly with the team for their game in Boston.

Pittsburgh’s President of Hockey Operations and General Manager touched on the decisions made as leadership does what they feel is best for the organization in the short term and the long term. During Wednesday’s GM Show with Josh Getzoff, play-by-play announcer for SportsNet Pittsburgh, Dubas went more in-depth on a number of topics.

He explained the thought process behind trading Jake Guentzel; telling the longtime Penguin in person; what management wanted to get in return; the plan for the prospects involved; why Michael Bunting was a key part; dealing Chad Ruhwedel; how they want to use the roughly $12 million in cap space; and more. Below is the transcript of the most key points (with the questions edited for clarity). The full show - which features Dubas on Mike Sullivan, Bryan Rust, Drew O'Connor and Wilkes-Barre/Scranton - can be accessed in the @penguins post below:

JG: In regards to the Jake Guentzel trade, was there a game, a moment, that kind of made you sway in that direction?

KD: I think in coming into the job, I knew there would be decisions over the course of time that would be very difficult and at times unpopular. I think that's the business that we've chosen, is that you have to do those things – otherwise, you just continue to go down a path and then it's longer to get back to where you need to be going. This season, the intention was, from coming in in the beginning of June, to try to give the team a jump start and see whether we could get it back on track and into a playoff spot and into contention after last season. Knowing that you have to always keep an open mind about where a season is going; how's the team playing; how are special teams performing; goaltending; health; etcetera. And I think because of what the group has accomplished and the character of the group, they had earned as long a runway as possible to see if we could get the season going. That was communicated to them a number of times, either to the whole group or to smaller portions of leadership. I think once we got through the western Canadian trip, especially with the way that it ended, unfortunately, it was clear to me that we had to move ahead… we'd kind of been going down both tracks in our conversations with teams, and it was pretty clear to me at that point – the way that we had performed, plus where we sat – that we needed to try to take this opportunity to stock up and then attack the next two months a different way. I sort of push back on the notion that it was, whatever people might say, raising the white flag or what have you. If that were the case, we would have focused exclusively on futures, draft picks, and only draft picks. Instead, our focus was, can we bring in a good roster player, and can we stock up our prospect pool. So, it was finding the trade that was the best combination of both of those, and that's what we did with Carolina.

JG: That decision mindset-wise to pivot – you came from Toronto, where you guys were Cup contenders the last couple of years trying to push your way through the playoffs; broke through last year to get out of the first round. You come here, you mentioned the pedigree and the success this group has had – how hard mentally is that… I don't want to say that you don't want to contend for a Cup or don't want to put yourself in a position… but to kind of take that step and realize okay, we're gonna trade a pretty significant player that maybe lessens our chances right now of going for a Stanley Cup?

KD: I had to more rely on my first two years in Toronto – so, ‘14-15 and ’15-16, where as an assistant general manager, we were sellers. The team there didn't have the success or the pedigree of the group here, but I'm still trying to learn the lessons from that and how it helped the team sort of transform into a group that, every year, is in the top-10, top-five in the league in the regular season – and then give yourselves the best chance, in my previous job, (that) was against the Boston's, Tampa's, and Florida's. I think in my role, there's going to be a lot of times where in the short run or in the immediate term, you have to do things that people will question; that people will think are unpopular; and that people will not agree with – both internally and externally. But the goal, the job, has to be all the time about winning in the long run, and giving ourselves as many chances as possible to be in contention over the long run. In the end with this, we felt as a management group, unanimously, it was the right track to go down.

JG: I did want to ask about the process of moving Jake, because you talked in the last segment about the idea of kind of wrapping your head around a move like that – but then I’m sure lots of teams were interested in his services, and you kind of had to narrow it down to the best situation for the Penguins.

KD: It was try to find the return that brought us the best that could help our roster the most, but also not sacrificing what was what was going to be the long-term return of the group. So, you have Bunting on the team now. He's not a replacement for Jake. You can look historically, and that's the one thing that I think you want to avoid. Is he going to come in and has he gotten a good opportunity off the off the hop? Sure. He's played fine, and he needs to continue to take those steps and take advantage of that opportunity. We need to develop the three players we got in the trade, and we need to make good on the draft picks. So, there were three parts of the trade. The prospect part has three different prospects coming, and we'd obviously done a lot of work on them. Ponomarev is probably the closest. Koivunen certainly has the most high-end talent. Lucius is right there as well. Lucius is younger, and has had another great year at Wisconsin. So, getting those three pieces to the package back was important, and it wasn't something that a lot of the other teams could truly offer. At least, not with a player the quality of Bunting, and the number and quality of prospects. That's why Carolina was, despite being a division rival, the best fit for us.

JG: What was the process like with Jake? I know there was a report out there from ESPN that you actually drove to his house and let him know you were going to move him – can you kind of take us through everything that went on with that?

KD: In the summer of 2019 when I was in Toronto, we had moved ahead with moving Nazem Kadri to Colorado. It was on July 1, and there's a million things going on that day. I called Nas and told him, and afterward, I think he just wished there was more of a personal (aspect) after being with the team for so long. It had its ups and downs. But he was an elite competitor, great player, born and bred Maple Leaf. I always said, on July 1, it's not always doable to get up and leave, nor around the trade deadline. But I always said to myself, if we got in that situation again and it was available, I would want to do it in person. So, once we'd had the trade completed and agreed to, I called Jake to make sure he wasn’t already on his way down to the game, we were playing Washington that night. I said, just stay there, and just got in the car and drove to his house to tell him in person. I haven't been here with Jake that long, but I just feel that a player who's done so much for the organization, the community – if you can deliver it in person face to face, it's never easy, but I think it's deserved.

JG: What are the immediate plans for each of the prospects as it pertains to their steps forward in the Penguins system?

KD: Ponomarev is going to make his debut tonight, so Wednesday night for Wilkes-Barre against Lehigh Valley. He's had an excellent year with Chicago, and made his NHL debut, first goal, first assist for Carolina. Plays center, is a natural center, plays both special teams… younger player, early 20s. We feel like as the year goes on, he and Sam Poulin are the two that are down there now that are that are really pushing. In his case, he'll come in and if he continues to play the way that he was in Chicago, he'll push and that'll give us some younger flavor kind of coming down the stretch, then guys that can help our team. Koivunen has had an elite, elite year with Karpat in Liiga, so they'll start their playoffs coming up soon. Then depending on where they go and whether he's with the national team or not, we'll probably have him come over to Wilkes. Then Lucius, he and Daniel Laatsch – two of our prospects with Wisconsin – they were upset by Ohio State last weekend. So, they'll be off until the first round of the NCAA Tournament March 28-29th. Of course, being collegiate athletes, they are not eligible to come in for the end of the season, but they'll both be at development camp.

JG: You get that conditional first as well in the trade for Jake Guentzel. I'm curious about that, because I think a lot of people were saying, well, if he's going to trade Jake Guentzel, he has to get a first-round pick – and it could be, if Carolina goes to the Stanley Cup Final. How much were you concerned with that as much as you mentioned the prospects and the players that you could get back?

KD: I think it was more trying to protect the range of the pick than whether to get obsessed about it being a first or first this year, a first all these years. The pick is still, like, the mystery box. Like it could end up being Ponomarev or Koivunen or a Cruz Lucius. You don't know. But for us, the key was to protect the range. So usually in those conditional picks, it's the second or third of the team that goes up to the first. In this case here, it's Philly’s second, (and could be) Carolina's first. If (the Hurricanes) don't go to the Stanley Cup final, it becomes a Philadelphia second. So, rather than have it be between 25 and 64, it’ll depend on what happens with Philly and with Carolina the rest of the year, but it was more to tighten up the range and give us protection and know it may be into the early/mid-50s then drive it all the way back. The key for us was the prospects. So, I can understand why people say it should be X, Y, and Z. But things like those don't tend to move at the deadline.

JG: (In terms of Chad Ruhwedel), was that a hard deal to make? I mean, an expiring contract, I know that there's the limitations there as well.

KD: I think that one was we have a couple guys, younger players, that we wanted to give more legitimate time to. John Ludvig being one, he'd been out of the lineup for quite a while and sometimes you need to do those types of (trades), no matter where you are in your evolution as a franchise. If you have younger guys that are pushing, you want to give them those chances. Ryan Shea and Jack St. Ivany in particular, Jack St. Ivany has played really well for Wilkes. Right shot, penalty kill. So, we're going to continue to have him roll here, but when you're looking at how you're going to evolve and progress, you've got Kris and Erik – and then who's going to fill in that third role? What do you need from them, given what you're getting from the other two? It's going to be penalty killing, size, strength, reach, and Jack brings those. So, it was trying to clear the path to get Ludvig back in, get an opportunity for Jack, and Ryan Shea as well.

JG: You said you anticipated about $12 million in cap space – what’s the tentative plan for that?

KD: I think what that number represents is an opportunity for us to improve across positions. If you take the roster and you stack it back up again next year, essentially, if you look at our team now, we don't have a whole lot of expiring players remaining. We've got Jeff (Carter), who I think that's a ‘we'll see where he is at,’ and I think he's contributed a lot for us this year on and off the ice. He's not scoring like he was when he was in his early twenties and into his early thirties. But penalty-killing, competitiveness, and what he's brought to the locker room has been tremendous for us. And then you've got Ned (Alex Nedeljkovic) as well that expires. Beyond that, it's mostly restricted free agents. So, for us, it's: can we take that money and where can we improve the spots on our roster? Can we slot guys down? That's our main focus, if those opportunities are there. If they're not, it's how can we use the cap space to acquire assets in other ways? Is it trade? Is it trading for more futures that we can parlay into other facets? So, it will be pretty wide open as we go into the summer. We wanted to position ourselves and give ourselves the options to attack it any different way. Now, we've got a better collection of younger assets to attack and trade, we have the cap space – and we just need to execute on our plan.

JG: You’ve known Bunting for a long time – what led to this being the key present piece of the deal when you moved Jake?

KD: Well, I think in Carolina's case, they needed to have salary come out. Michael's 28 years old, he'll be turning 29 next year during training camp. So, you have him for age 29 and 30 seasons, he’s got two more years left on his deal. I think just in terms of the way that the team plays and wants to play, his ability to forecheck, hunt the puck down – but then also make plays in those tight areas and then get to the net as we saw last night in the 6-on-5 situation to tie the game in Ottawa – that's what he brings. He can make plays at the net; he can keep plays alive for others; he can drive the opponent crazy. Sometimes he can drive his manager and coach crazy as well [laughs]. But he brings great energy day in and day out. He's a real competitor and he's had a really, probably, a tougher road than anybody in our locker room to get to this point. He didn't play AAA hockey until he was 17 years old, so he's had to grind his way all the way up. He's an underdog type. I think the group can use that type of spirit and energy right now.