Tell us what brought you into the business of hockey and specifically looking at the amateur side and scouting.
Well, I was really fortunate as a kid. My dad was an amateur scout, so I tell the story all the time that when I was a young boy, I actually would skip practices to go to games with my dad, and it's funny when I finished playing Junior B in Calgary, I had the opportunity to start scouting, and I'm like, ‘Dad, I don't want to scout. I see what you do and all the work that you do, and how much you're away from me when I was younger.’ And then I actually got an opportunity to spend some time in the rinks with a friend who was scouting, and from that point on, I just felt it was in my blood. It was a passion. It was a love of being in the rink, watching hockey, learning players; and even some of the old scouts that you run into that worked with my dad. They said, ‘You've really been scouting since you've been about five years old.’ So, there's certainly a passion for it. Growing up in Calgary, watching a lot of junior hockey, it just became in my blood and a thing for me to do, and I rolled with it. And I’m really still excited about watching hockey and being in rinks.
That's awesome. I know scouting is a huge commitment. How have you seen this part of the business evolve both philosophically and logistically?
It's changed a lot from back in the day. My dad didn't have a computer to do his reports on! But even from when I started, the technology, the fact that there's video for every game in the world that you want to watch, and whether that's at the pro level or the amateur level, it's all there for you. Everything is at your fingertips, with data, with analytics, with R&D, with just so much access to information on players. It's really weeding through that and needing to have to get through that to make the best selections and know the players as best as you can. But also, the game's changed.
When I first started, it was about the fights and the physicality and the toughness, and there still is that. But the game's way faster than it's ever been at the NHL level. The game's more skilled than it's ever been. Players are more dialed than they've ever been from a conditioning standpoint, from an attention to detail standpoint. So, we have to keep up on that. And the game's still changing. It's still evolving. And the players that are (drafted) are usually about 2-3-4 years away from even sometimes joining the organization or making an impact. We have to project 2-3-4 years from now what the game is going to be like. So, it's trying to get through that with players, with understanding the trends of the game, and that's where the people here have so much information and resources that we always try and stay up on all of that.
It’s fascinating to think about the fact that you have to project the game what it might look like years from now to identify what type of players to draft.
Right. We're drafting 17-year-old young boys that, by the time they're 23 or 24, they're really making an impact. And that's not your Berkly Cattons. That's your second, third, fourth, fifth rounders. And that's one thing that the group here has done really well. It’s your Ryan Wintertons, your Jacob Melansons, they're just now making an impact, and they're from the first draft.
I think when we talk about scouts, we rightly honor the hours and the work that goes into going to the rinks. But aside from what's happening on the ice, what are other aspects of who a player is that you and your team are looking at?
You're always looking at the character of a player and what makes them tick, and there's never a perfect player. Connor McDavid, Sidney Crosby, they’re superstars, and they still had some flaws and have some flaws. It's trying to figure out how bad (players) want it and how much they're willing to sacrifice to get to this level. And we talk on the development side about how it's not about getting a player to play in the NHL. It's getting him to play 84 games in the NHL, and there's a difference, right? So, these players, these young boys, have to be extremely driven, extremely passionate. They have to make sacrifices with their lives and do things different than their high school buddies are doing because they're so dedicated to this craft, because everybody wants it, but who wants it the most, and how talented are they? Players have to come through and really take inventory of what they're good at, what they have to work on, and then just be ferocious in their development to get themselves to here, but also to stay here because there's the next wave of player that's coming to try and take their job too.
How do you discern that? Who are you speaking to? What information are you gathering to evaluate that?
You're trying to get as much information as you can from people around the player that have been around the boy from when they were 15, 16, 17 years old. So that's coaches, that's managersthat's trainers. That's people at school, it's billets, the people they live with. It's teachers. So, you're really trying to get this whole host of information, and that's what people maybe don't understand. Scouting isn't just about watching hockey; it's about building this book of information on a player to help us know really what we're investing in, and that's what it is. It's an investment in the young man. And through the work the development department does helping them grow as young men to become pros, to live this as a as a daily (action) in their world, a lot goes into it for the player and for us as an organization.
Well, you set me up perfectly for the next question, which is, in addition to amateur scouting, you oversee player development. Share with us from a mindset perspective how you have to shift your focus from, as you just said, acquiring the player to now developing the player. And what does that side of your role look like?
We've got a really good player development staff. All of them have been in the game at various levels. We've got Cory Murphy, who, as an undersized defenseman, found his way to the NHL. Zach Dalpe, who was in a lot of dressing rooms in a lot of different years. Justin Schultz, who's a Stanley Cup winner, and Katelyn Parker, who forged her path as a coach in the NCAA and playing hockey. And Frans Nielsen, who was a face-off specialist. So, there's all different types of things that those people have been through to help them now teach the next wave of players, and that's everything from nutrition to the importance of strength and conditioning to the importance of these little aspects of their game. And that's something that I think NHL teams have really started investing in in the last number of years is really getting a handle on these players after we draft them because we don't have them under our control in our buildings. So, it's knowing the player, evaluating the player, and then working with them and helping them improve to get them to the point where then they walk into the building, they're ready to be pros, to take on the next step of their careers.
A little bit more nitty gritty question to that point: the NCAA landscape is ever evolving. What's your current take on that? How do you manage that? How does that fit into the plans you have for different players who are going that route?
It sure has changed a lot. The NCAA rules have opened up a lot more opportunities for players, and it gives us more flexibility in the player's development path, right? So, it's another option. I think it's still changing, it's still evolving. Where it lands, we still don't know, but we have to flex with that as well. And we've seen that with a number of our prospects deciding to go the NCAA route after playing in the CHL., And we've seen positives from Clark Caswell winning a national championship; Ollie Josephson taking good steps at North Dakota this year; Jakub Fibigr leaving the CHL and now going to Ohio State. So, it gives more flexibility to the player. It gives more flexibility to us as an organization where we don't necessarily have to rush a player into the American Hockey League, just because their time is up in the CHL. So, it's been great so far, but we also have to adapt and see where that lands over the next few years.
So I've heard that you have a saying that you like vanilla ice cream, but you don't like vanilla players. Tell us what that's all about.
(Laughs) I get mocked a lot from my family and the office here that I like vanilla ice cream. I'm a little bit plain when it comes to my food. But when it comes to hockey players, a player has to have something special. They have to have, and we'll call it spice, we'll call it little salt and pepper, a little bit more than vanilla. Maybe we'll call it vanilla bean. But players have to have something that allows them to excel in the NHL. And it might be an elite trait. It might be something that separates them. And whether that's skating, sense, compete, size, physicality, drive, and passion, they have to have that little something that makes them more than just vanilla. It makes them a little bit more special that we can now help their way to the NHL.
You've been here about a year now. What has excited you about being part of the Kraken organization?
I think it starts with the resources available, and that obviously comes from ownership. But (also) the trust that the organization has in the people doing their jobs. I've known Jason (Botterill) through my time in Buffalo, and he's great to work with because there is a trust that you're going to get the job done. And (also) the surrounding people. Every department has their own niche, whether it's the amateur department, the pro scouting, the R & D department, which provide great information. The player development department that we see upstairs that we work with on a day-to-day basis. Everybody's proud. They're proud to be a Kraken. They're proud to make this organization better. And now it's bringing that together to help number one, draft the player. Number two, develop the player. And then when they get (to the NHL), also help their path to be great NHL players. And that's really rewarding because there's a lot of passion here. It's passion to make this organization successful, and all these hands go into it and it takes a village. It really is a village here, and we're all united, and we're all trying to really get the players to where they need to be to make the team as good as we can be to help push towards a Stanley Cup.
And as a player pool, it's so exciting to see this prospect group mature. In broad brushstrokes. What excites you about the young players in the Kraken system?
You know, again, there's a whole different type of player. We've got the Jagger Firkuses and the Tyson Jugnauths. We got the Julius Miettinens, the Jake O'Briens, and these are just players who are just scratching the surface, right? And these are the players that I've been involved with in the last year. Let alone, the Berkly Cattons, Ryan Wintertons, and Jacob Melansons that have found their way and now, are finding their way at the NHL level. So, there's a really great dynamic and cross section of types of player, which, as an expansion organization, is really good because it gives you a lot of pieces to the puzzle. It's a good group of players that want to have success, that want to win. It's been fun from that standpoint, seeing them and now interacting with them and getting to know them, and again, helping build that bridge for them to get to the NHL and have success in the NHL.
