Talk us through your journey from playing the game to turning into a coach now at the NHL level.
Getting to play the game started really early in my family, like a lot of families from Canada. In my hometown of Thunder Bay, Ontario, you play hockey, you watch hockey, you coach hockey, or you're a fan of hockey, right? In our family, the love for the game is from my dad. He played professionally in Belgium, and was a really good goal scorer, ironic, since I turned out to be a goalie. And for me, it actually started when I was about two and a half living in Belgium with my family. I don't remember a lot of this, but (it's what I have always heard) secondhand from my parents.
I was always drawn to the goaltender. During practice, I would want to sit behind the goal in the goal judge's seat and just watch the goalie. Early on, my dad didn't want me to be a goalie, so he actually forced me to play out for as long as he could. And then eventually, when it was clear that goaltending might be the right path for me, he hung on for another year. He had this, this vision of maybe; it wasn't too late to convert me. So, I was playing travel hockey as a goaltender, and then rec league hockey in a different organization in our city as a forward until I was 13. And those experiences actually helped me when I did eventually become a goaltender full time, so the love for the game started early.
I played my minor hockey in Thunder Bay. I was fortunate because, at that time, we had a USHL team in Thunder Bay - the only Canadian team in the league. So, I got to play a really good brand of junior hockey without having to pick a route of either the NCAA or major junior. So, I was able to get a scholarship and play junior hockey in my hometown, which was great.
I went on to Colorado College and played four years there, got my degree, and got to play some good hockey. Eventually, I signed with the Arizona Coyotes, then the Phoenix Coyotes and spent, you know, two years in their minor league system, and learned a lot about minor pro hockey...traveling on the bus. And it's true what they say that the hockey...you won't remember, but the experiences with your teammates and your coaching staff you do, and those are things that I love about the game.
From there, I was getting to the end of playing and wasn't sure really what I wanted to do next. I knew I loved coaching, and so got into coaching right away, and then simultaneously into teaching. I ended up moving back home to Thunder Bay, did my teacher's college and did a Master of Education there, was fortunate enough to be able to teach and coach in my hometown again. That brought me back to my family, which was great after playing minor pro for a bunch of years when I spent a lot of time away from the people that kind of matter the most. It was good to do that whole thing and reconnect. And it was cool to be able to do both teaching and coaching, because there's a lot of synergy between the two professions.
Eventually, I was able to work in Sault Ste. Marie in the OHL as their goalie coach. And as hockey is, there were some familiar faces that brought me in, gave me an opportunity there. It's a great organization, Sault Ste. Marie. A lot of people in our organization have been a Greyhound one way or another, which is great. And then I got the opportunity to become the development coach for the Calgary Flames. That was hard because I had a teaching career going, and my wife, Lindsay, is a physician in Thunder Bay. She's an OB. So, we had to make this decision of, 'how are we both going to pursue careers and start a family?' It was not an easy decision, but off we went to Stockton, California, which is where Calgary's minor league affiliate is. We had our first boy, Sawyer, in the middle of our first year there. 20 months later, we had Findley and Oliver. So now I was in a position where I love hockey, loved coaching, love being around the game, but also really wanted to be a good parent. And a lot of people can do it. I just kind of felt like I might have one foot in hockey and one foot out and one foot in as a dad, one foot out. I couldn't do both well, is what I thought. So, we made the tough decision to walk away and head back to Thunder Bay.
I was fortunate enough that Lakehead University-- which is where I coached for a while, got my teaching degree and my master's degree from -- offered me a coaching position. So, I went back, and the first year, I coached and was daddy daycare. Lindsay went back to work, and then the next year, I got into teaching, and we were convinced that maybe the whole pro circuit might not work for us and the boys, since we had three kids under two, and were trying to figure that all out and balance. Even back in our hometown, we had a ton of support from our family, and it still was challenging.
And then the opportunity came up with Seattle to move to Coachella Valley. That was coming out of COVID, and that time had been hard for a lot of people, and for us, in a lot of different ways. So, we just felt like maybe our family needed a bit of an adventure. I felt like, 'What an amazing opportunity with an amazing organization.' And so off we went, and a few years later, we're here.
You mentioned teaching and coaching. I think people would say, 'of course, there's a connection.' But can you put a fine point on what you've leveraged from each of those worlds into the other?
For sure. I taught mostly seventh and eighth grade as a homeroom teacher. So, at our school, it was a Catholic high school, I taught kind of everything: language arts, religion, phys ed, health, science, math, drama, dance, you name it. But my main focus was science and phys ed. And I think that I learned very quickly in teaching that if you want your students to learn, you have to show them you care about them, and you have to genuinely care about them.
In teachers' college, there was always a sign in one of the staff rooms, and it read: 'they don't care what you know until they know that you care. I think that's it. I think the connection that you can form with your students is really, really important, and that dictates the way that your class would go.
I also coached every sport team that I could in school, because it enables your students to see you in a different light, and you to see them in a different light, where it's not an academic focus. You're just people working together for a common goal. So, I think the big thing I learned was relationship building with your students, which is obviously very similar to hockey. I think it's important to want to get to know the players that I coach and let them know I do care about them and care about their successes as athletes, but also as people. I think students and athletes will feel that and know when you care with the way that your discussions go and the way that you treat them. And I think that you get the best out of each other that way.
We see how hard coaches work, particularly in season? How do you continue to hone your craft and keep track of what's evolving not just as a coach, but also in goaltending?
The game is like, always changing. Shooters are always getting better. It's sort of a cat and mouse where they start creating different ways to score, and we have to think of ways to negate that. Then goalies get good in that area, and then they evolve. And we evolve. So, it never stops, right? It's all about having a growth mindset and understanding that you don't know it all, which I don't (smiles). And that there's so much more to learn, which I'm very well aware of. And I think that you do that by watching video and speaking with other coaches. We have coaches on our staff that played a bunch of years, that have scored a bunch of goals, that see things offensively, that see things defensively. That are cutting edge and looking at individual skill sets and development. So, I try to take little pieces of everything that goes on in (our coaching) room as well as what I see on video, and then I talk to a lot of other goalie coaches as well. There's a pretty strong core of individuals that do this job and we often will bounce ideas off one another. I think you'd be naive to think that you could go at it alone. There's a big team of us working together.
You mentioned the cat and mouse of it, is there something specific that you see is kind of the next big challenge for goaltenders in their game?
Yeah, I think it's interesting. There are some philosophies that have been around forever that are still applicable. But I also think now you're looking at situations where maybe it makes more sense to be a little bit more patient on your feet, and the other big thing is players are so good, the game is so fast, that I think using the available tools that we have to allow our goaltenders to recognize patterns. The pattern recognition is important - to be able to read situations in plays so you can anticipate outcomes. And part of that is my job to look at hundreds of plays and then to home in on that information and give our goalies the one or two things that they need to focus on.
One thing Lane Lambert mentioned when you were hired was you could potentially help with scouting the other team's shooters, as well. Do you do that? Is it game specific? Is it more trends in the league? How do you parse that out?
The job is multifaceted, for sure, which is great, because I think if I was only focused on one particular aspect, every day feels the same, whereas now no two days are the same, much like teaching. One of the things I'm responsible for is to look at shooter tendencies on the other team and specific shooters, and allow our goaltenders, again, the ability to anticipate outcomes based on patterns. Certain players that want to do a certain thing. There are other players that more want to pass versus shoot, or whatever it might be. There are teams that have different offensive structures which we'll, we'll look at and obviously be aware of and incorporate into our training and what we do on the ice. And then, there’s a part of the job that has me scouting the other team's goalie, and how do we be successful against them? And part of that is the plays that goalie sees frequently are based on how they defend. It’s all sort of interconnected and is what makes the job really fun.
There's a new CBA next year that will have E-Bugs on rosters, but for now, three goalie tandems are rare. Talk about how you learned that that was going to be the situation here and how you approached making sure all three were managed well, and maybe any adaptations you made, because it seems to be going very well.
In the summer (general manager) Jason Botterill and I were having conversations, as every staff has, about what your roster is going to look like. And then into September, we had a situation where we had three very capable goaltenders in training camp. And it's a unique year: there's lots of things going on with the Olympic break and our condensed schedule; and we play seventeen games in the month of January. So, there's a lot of different factors. We found out coming through camp, that all three goaltenders were playing well. So, it was a situation where you're not exactly sure how it's going to go, you never really know, but thankfully I have previous experience with all three of our goaltenders and have gotten to work with all them in the past and I know all them as people, and I think that really helps the situation.
The other side of it, and I've said this a few times now, is that you can't meet three better individuals in the game. They're extremely professional about what they do, but they're also just really good people, and they're really understanding of the situation and understanding how we can all still benefit from this. We can all still get better. We can all still treat each other well, which we do. We can have fun, which is a big part of this whole thing. That's why you do it. It is a business, but we have fun. And I think that the whole situation is made easier by the general feel of what we've been doing. And I managed three goalies in Stockton way back when, so I've had previous experience with it and you learn from every experience. There are probably things there that I didn't do well that now this time around, I think I'm doing a little bit better, but there's always room to grow. And I get our goalies' feedback a lot too. I ask them, 'hey, are we getting enough in practice?' 'This is what this is and how I see it, but do we need more? Do we need less?' How are we managing this thing?' I think that I learned that in teaching too. Sometimes when you're vulnerable, you get that true, honest feedback that makes the situation better.
You mentioned knowing all three of these goaltenders. Matt you've known for so long being from the same hometown. You worked with Joey in Coachella Valley and watched him ascend, and then Phil is obviously returning to what everyone knows he can be. How rewarding is that for you? I know you're not going to take credit for it, but to be part of those journeys. How does that feel?
Yeah, again, it goes back to the relationship building. When you work with an individual for a year, two years, however long, you want the best for them, right? Joey, for instance, I was fortunate enough to work with him as a very good goaltender, and he was right there, ready to make that next step when we had him in Coachella Valley. The work and effort that he puts into his day-to-day is really impressive. I always believed that this is where he would be, and that he could do the things that he done here, and it's really cool to see. To be a small piece of that journey is rewarding, for sure.
Obviously, it's been a longer journey with Matt and I. He won a couple Stanley Cups which is really, really cool, and he's bringing those back to our hometown, which is really neat. But what's impressed me about him is he's the same person that he's always been. That's really cool. And for me, again, I'm fortunate to be a small part of that journey.
And then with Phil, he came down to Coachella Valley last year. And what impressed me the most is he is who he is in hockey. Obviously, he's done some unbelievable things. He's a veteran, and he came down to Coachella Valley and had zero ego. He just came in like, 'let's get to work,' and he made our room better. He built some relationships there, like with a kid like Nikke Kokko, who looks up to him. He made me a better coach, as they all have. I feel like for me to see that their hard work is being rewarded, and that they're doing some good things this season...I feel very fortunate.
Is there maybe something else that you really treasure or enjoy about them on and off the ice, each of the three?
For sure. I think they all are unique. They're all different. They all have different personalities. They're all fantastic teammates. That's good to see, too. Joey can fill a room with his personality in a good way, and very has a magnetic personality, where people want to be around him. Phil I've gotten to know better this year, and I really appreciate how Phil is just very straightforward, honest, easy, simple. You always know where you stand, and that's a good thing. And then Matt, I'll say it again. None of what he's done in his professional life has changed the person that he is. He still has the same group of friends from elementary school to high school that he's always had. He's still close with all those individuals, and he's the same guy. He's a really nice kid, more of a quiet kind of guy, but just a really trustworthy and a good friend, and a good teammate. I think there's a lot about all of their personalities that I really enjoy, which makes my job way easier.
I feel like goaltending can be misunderstood. If you were talking to a fan, they see a goaltender stop the puck, obviously, but if they want to watch a goaltender and maybe understand more about that position, what would you tell a fan to watch for?
Yeah, I think the crazy part about goaltending is that you're only physically making a save, like a puck actually hitting you for less than 30 seconds a night, or something like that. The rest of the time, you're reading, processing. There's all the work that you do before the shot gets to you. So I think that's the most impressive part. If you want to fully appreciate what a goaltender does, just home in on them when the puck is the zone and watch their movement: the pushing, the shuffling, the T-pushing, looking over traffic, finding the puck, dealing with contact, you're getting bumped, different things take place. And on top of that, goalies do it all with an extra however many pounds of equipment strapped to them. That's the most unique part of the position: everyone just sees the end outcome, which is the save or the goal, right? But there's all this work that takes place beforehand, and I think that's what makes the position cool and unique.
I'm of the opinion we're nowhere near where we should be with understanding goaltending. We've had save percentage, we've had goals against. Now we're looking into shot quality against, goals above expected...are there numbers that may not be perfect, but you'd say that's the better if you're going to look at just a box score or maybe a website with some numbers?
Yeah, the numbers are often misleading. You know, good or bad, that's just the way it goes. I think what I've always spoken to our boys about and what I believe is that we're just focused on our process. When I go into a post-game mop up of their body of work for that game, yes, there's the simple, this is your goals against; this is your save percentage; obviously the win is the most important analytic - hockey is a result driven business. But sometimes we can do a lot of really good things and not get to that benchmark. Therefore, we focus on our process. The way I look at it is that we have a structure that we want to play. Each of our goalies is unique. They all have their own sort of way that they play situations, so how closely was that game aligned to our process? How closely was each situation aligned to your structure and how you would want to play that situation? When you have checks in a lot of those columns you're looking at over the course of the game, and when we hold our structure and do things the way we want to do, it tends to produce a better result. But we do kind of get more focused on just what is our process, what is our structure? Sometimes we make saves that aren't based on our process, and we have to look at that too. There could be something that counts positively to your save percentage, but maybe we could have done something else process-wise. Sometimes goals go in and we've done things based on our process, and the puck finds its way in, and then it's okay, like that is our structure, and we can do things correctly and the outcome not be there. So, I think both ways, it's important to just focus on process.
Okay, we're going to wrap with a little game, and it's 'Fact or Fiction.' I'm going to give you a couple commonly said things about goaltenders. And you can say Fact or Fiction. You can explain if you want, or you can just say Fact or Fiction, whatever you prefer.
Goalies are voodoo.
Fiction. I think goalies get this interesting reputation of being weird and different. Of course, we are in certain ways. We're just standing in and letting people hurl a projectile at us at like 90-100 miles an hour, and it's our job to willingly get in the way of that. But at the same time, I think that a goalie's life away from the rink is oftentimes very, very normal. And you can be a normal person. Just like any other position could have people that are different or whatever normal is.
This might be a little bit of what you were just talking about with process versus outcome, but fact or fiction, the fancy save is actually the desperate save.
Fiction. I think that a lot of times there's things that happen in a game that would dictate you to be out of a position. Sometimes you have to break from structure to make a save. And sometimes it's not fancy, sometimes it's ugly, and that's okay too, right? Obviously in a perfect world, you want 30 pucks a night hitting you right (in the chest). Then, obviously, you've done a whole bunch of good work. But it's just not realistic. The willingness to break from structure when needed is important, and not always desperation.
Okay, last one, goalposts are a goalie's best friend.
Fiction, because the puck can hit them and go in! So, I would say fiction there too. I've heard the adage that a goal post is an extension of your equipment, and I think we do need them a lot, because we use them as anchors to push into and off of, and they slow us down, and they allow us to pivot within them, to bump out on different angles. Yes, we definitely need them, but they also can hurt us sometimes. I see both on that one. I'm non-committal (laughs).
