Being Canadian, often hockey is just part of day-to-day life. Tell us about your relationship with hockey, before you started to turn it into a job.
Yeah, coming from Canada, (and the) Vancouver area, (hockey is) just kind of in the culture there really. All your friends and even elementary school are at least trying out the game. And so, I started at a young age and just fell in love with it. Had a mini stick in my hand from the time I was a toddler, even before I was skating, and just fell in love with it. My dad played field hockey growing up and things, so it was kind of just in that natural, nice transition, and never looked back.
Then you took hockey and turned it into a career. And I think someone like you, you're doing it in a really interesting and different way than I think most people assume pathways are, right? So, talk about how you started to say, 'Hey, I can turn hockey into a job.'
I think just like anything in life, you're just the sum of your experiences. And for me as a player, I was somebody that was undersized and had to have a unique perspective and all that. I was lucky enough to play...my parents would drive me to a place called North Shore growing up, and I had amazing coaches that really helped me think the game a little bit. And as I got older, I hear a lot of things like bigger, stronger, faster and all that type of stuff. But I figured those are the basics to the game. But for a guy like myself, I might need a bigger edge and just try to study the game and learn from other players and have that perspective. So as a player, I try to have that perspective. And then post career, I was just curious and had a desire to keep learning the game, so, I just decided to put together a couple of research projects for myself to try to help some players out. And that's kind of how it all kind of started.
Can you share with people a little bit more about what that was, because what did you discover you really wanted to hone in on in terms of how to help players be better?
I think that stemmed from the players (I was working with). I was lucky enough...I started a company about 10 years ago now, and it changes. You're just trying to get back into the sport and trying to assist people. You have this love for this game, and people share that, and it's just such a good community to be a part of. So that's how it started. I worked with a couple players back home, and I think they were just really intrigued about learning. We'd get on the ice, exchange ideas of, 'This is what I'm seeing through some NHL video, and is this what you guys are experiencing on the ice?' And sometimes it was correlated, and sometimes it wasn't. So, for me, it evolved over the years. For me, it was the high-volume stuff. Like, what are these players experiencing a lot in the game? And can we check off those things first and try to help them evolve their game that way. That's where it started.
I think it's easy for a fan or someone who follows the game to think players have to improve shooting, improve skating.But you're working on a lot of things that are off puck, is that fair? What can you share about some of the categories of things you work on with players?
Fast forwarding to my time here as a player, I think you spend the majority of time off puck and your roots. Our coaching staff does such a great job with preparing our players (in terms of) what systems we're doing, what other teams are doing and all that.And within that system, (I am) just trying to help players understand the reads that they're making off the puck and how they can get the puck in a good situation and put themselves in a situation where, you know, you're not touching the puck very much all game, and when you do get the puck you know what to do with it.But most importantly, how to get it. So, yeah, we have our systems and our players play within it, but the goal is to try to help the players maximize what they can do within that system.
So, let's start with reads. I think people outside of the game proper, we know about shoulder checks. We know about checking your reads. F1, does this. F2 does this. What do you think the perception of a good read is, and what do you actually think maybe an efficient or an effective read should be about?
It's a good question. I think so much of the game, especially, coming from player development, and working with that staff, we're trying to figure out translatable areas. For example, how do you take a prospect and project or figure out how they can translate their game (to the NHL level)? And you always hear the players say the game moves faster. Everybody's so smart at this level. So, for us, it's trying to help our players understand when to scan or how to get relevant information. That's what we have tried to talk about a decent amount, is whether you're on a penalty kill or if you're in a defensive coverage or (playing) offensively, it's hard to not just zone in on the puck right, and have a cerebral awareness.But at the same time, you do have to make sure that you're paying attention to what's going on exactly at the puck. So, for us, we do a lot of smaller games as a staff, and try to have our players have a creative element to it. Also on the defensive side, (it's about) figuring out where are the lanes and if I do get this puck, what is my next read? And it's different for each player too. Some players are constantly scanning and want to be looking a lot, and some players (inherently) understand a little bit more. They're a little bit naturally more cerebral. They can take a scan and focus a little bit more on that type of stuff. I think it's different for each player, but just helping each player scan enough and feel good enough so the game slows down for them, right? We're just trying to figure it out, communicating with the player on that.
It sounds like it's a lot of visual processing and hockey IQ. Is that really what you're training?
For sure? I think that it's no different than like, in a gym. Maybe there are certain players that are going to be stronger than other players and all that type of stuff. But that doesn't mean that you don't work out, and you can't maximize your strength. For us, it's trying to make sure that there's a creative element and trying to help players maximize whatever relevant information, whatever they can see on the ice...trying to make sure that we can help them achieve that.
You mentioned systems. The skills that you're teaching these players, are they, in a way, independent of systems? Will they function in whatever system a player is playing in? Or how do you have to tweak your work with a player based on the systems?
Yeah, I think that's been like something I've been so grateful for, is to be part of the staff and be part of the ‘day and day’ and hearing exactly what our coaching staff wants for our players. And then designing and working with the staff, whether it's the head coach, assistant coaches, or video coaches on what exactly could we do for that player to maximize what we're trying to do, right? And so, looking at the system, looking at, okay, well, you know, we're going to have to make wall plays so, we work on a lot of wall plays post practice, right? Our assistant coaches have done a great job. Have done a great job of creating drills and all that type of stuff. So, I think that it's within the system for sure. And I think that's what is the beauty of being a part of a team and not being in the contracting business, where you're trying to figure out what is being said to the player and all that type of stuff. Whereas when you're in it, you know exactly what is expected, and you're just trying to maximize that system itself.
You’ve worked with the Kraken’s development staff and now this is your first full year at the NHL level. What can you share with us about the different ways you not only have to figure out how to work with players at the different levels, but maybe, what are the different asks of you when you're working with, say, an AHL player, an NCAA player, versus an NHL player?
I'd say just coming from a space where I was lucky enough to work with junior players, NHL players, I think it helped me with the communication side of it. I think one big thing is obviously being a younger fellow that, hopefully I can connect with the players as best as possible, but, also have the research and the background to try to be an asset to them in any way possible, right? I think that's one thing. And one really cool thing about the Kraken organization is it's ground up. You have a lot of prospects. So, working with the prospects, there's a natural, organic competition. We have so many amazing prospects. And, you look at Coachella Valley, where it's a lot of ‘iron sharpens iron’, right? There's some of the best players from around the world that are all playing on the same line, practicing together. That's almost half the development right there. But there's such an eagerness to learn from them. That has been really cool. And then also, what they had there before, just having a winning pedigree within the first two years, it created an environment where it was really exciting to get in the gym or do video. And the coaching staff did such an amazing job. So when player development came in, it was just a natural transition of 'Hey, we could try to add this.' And so that was great. And then the transition here, I think at first I was taken back by the vets, for sure. Obviously, we have guys that played 10 years in league, had success, won Cups, and I think just the willingness for them to want to have information and learn from our whole staff. And I think our staff's done a great job of working together and having our own strengths of how we can assist and help the player.
How do you like to work with a player at any level? What's the blend for you of video, on ice, off ice conversations. How do you find it's effective to build your message to players?
I think that just stems from getting to know them a little bit. Again, I think it's no different than the process of working in the gym. Like, if you look at our strength staff, they have a different process for each player. Some players love video, some players love on-ice work. I think a combination of both is necessary. But I think it's a big thing just to learn the player and understand:Are they over-thinkers, or do they like to just play? Do they just like to just feel it, do they want to see it? So, I think it's really individual, and I think it adapts as the season goes on too. That's the beauty of (working with everyone) day in and day out. You're trying to find the pulse of, ‘When is it relevant to give a message?’ You don't want to give 18 messages. You want to give the couple that you know matter over time. It's individual for sure.
With this focus you have on processing and finding the right reads and scans. How much, if at all, does your work bleed into maybe what an average fan would think of as traditional skills? Are you also saying point your toes north, or, your hips should be here, and how much do these worlds cross?
Yeah. I mean, usually what's incredible...like, you talked about the transition from junior to the NHL...I feel like in player development, our staff there does a great job of teaching those micro things that need to be taught. But that's not to say that these players are getting so much information that sometimes you might also forget about the little things that helped you with your shot and all that type of stuff. So, yeah, I'd say that the micro stuff and the mechanics also are very relevant. But I think at the end of the day, we're trying to win hockey games, so we're trying to focus on a little bit more of the macro stuff that can help our systems. And if it's a change of angle of shooting that is showing up quite a bit that we can help a player, then we'll definitely work on that post practice as well.
What can you share about the differences and the demands in your world of when you're out running a drill for the whole team, versus maybe when you're working with a player one on one?
I think the whole team aspect of it, you're trying to make sure that...there's a purpose behind each drill; that every time we're on the ice, there's a purpose behind what our staff does. But at the same time, you're trying to make sure that it's executed, and usually there's a compounding element where there's multiple skills whether it's a breakout or it's a retrieval, or shot through traffic, you're trying to work on a bunch of different things; whereas the more individual side of it, sometimes it doesn't need to be a grand purpose. There doesn't have to be three things that execute for the drill to be (successful). Whereas, when you're working with the whole team, usually there's a stack of things that have to be executed. So you can definitely get more micro the smaller group you get with, which is great, because we have a good blend of guys that stay out after practice, our staff grabs people to shoot pucks with, and everybody's got their own station going on, which I think is the prime way you develop.
You're introducing different ways of thinking about honing skills. What excites you about what might come next to help hockey players take the next step?
I think it's just the resources that everybody has now, with all the technology. Even as a coach and as a staff, the access we have to video from around the league and the information we're collecting. Coaches are designing D zone coverages to help out better. And then offensive coaches are establishing strategies to beat that. And just the constant pull and push of the league. And then, the elite minds of the game, of the players themselves, they're in the situation; they're problem solving, figuring that type of stuff out. I think that's the big thing that really intrigues me and excites me is just trying to study around the league what is already working and what guys are doing, and learning from that, and then figuring out what our players do and see if there's a way to kind of merge those things. That's really exciting for me.
How much hockey do you watch?
(Laughs) I don't know if I can quantify it, but I enjoy that we come here as a staff in general...we come in, it's a pretty cool culture where we're always bouncing clips off each other, and everybody has their own perspective on it. And I feel like it's almost like compounding and multiplying being in that room, because you get to get a bunch of great minds that combine and come to look at things the same way which is cool.
